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Who do you support

Mike

Well-Known Member
You know, there is a real disturbing trend going on and it is one that is not going to end well for you. Or for any of the rest of us, for that matter.

When you need a new camshaft, a new set of cylinder heads, or a new set of pistons, where do you go to purchase those parts? Are you supporting your local speed shop with your dollars, or are you trying to save 67¢ by purchasing parts from the whiz-bang, mail-order houses?

Ooops, that pointed a finger straight at you, didn't it?

Here is a typical scenario, one I went through gajillions of times.

Tommy Tight-fist just got his tax return from Uncle Sam and he is out to buy a new cam, a new intake and a new carb for his car. Since Tommy doesn't know spit from Shinola about what he wants, he walks into his local speed shop. He burns up 30 - 45 minutes of a counterman's time, getting recommendations on what parts to purchase. As soon as he gets a recommendation, he asks for the counterman to write down the parts and their prices, 'just so he can have the list handy, as soon as he cashes his tax check.'

But we all know that's not why Tommy wanted the list, don't we? The truth is that the parts the counterman recommended all came to 16¢ more than Tommy's tax return, and he was wanting to buy a case of beer, a bag of dope and take his girlfriend to a show out of that tax return, too.

So, Tommy goes home, opens up his wish books, or gets online and starts hunting the very best prices he can find. And he orders everything from ACME Warehouse, who promises to send him a new catalog and a new hat along with his order. Oh, yes, they will also send him two ACME decals to put on the shop refrigerator.

The delivery truck rolls up outside, drops off Tommy's big box of parts and Tommy heads to the garage, to start bolting stuff on.

But Tommy has never learned how to tie his own shoes, let alone work on an engine. So, after he pries on that harmonic balancer for a few minutes, he goes in the house to call that counterman at the local speed shop, to ask how in the world he can get that balancer off. Ahhh, he needs a puller to do the job. So he runs over to Wile E. Coyote's Discount Tools, Bait Shop and Video Store, to buy a puller.

After Tommy gets everything apart and starts putting things back together, he realizes he neglected to get a timing set from ACME, so he calls them back to order one. But by now, Tommy has already bought that case of beer, that bag of dope and has taken his girl out to dinner and a movie. So, instead of getting a quality timing set, Tommy buys the cheapest set ACME can sell him.

When the timing set arrives, Tommy heads back to the shop, but he quickly realizes he has no idea of what those marks on on those gears, so he calls the local speed shop counterman, to ask how to time the cam to the crank. And once he gets the timing set on, he suddenly realizes he doesn't have timing cover gasket and seal. So, Tommy runs down to McShady's Discount Auto Parts, to buy a gasket set.

Suddenly it is time to bolt on the rocker arms and Tommy is wondering why the rocker arms are barely reaching the tops of the valve stems. Back on the phone with the local speed shop and he learns that aftermarket cams will often have a different base circle, which will require different length pushrods. Tommy disconnects and rings up ACME, but the phone salesman at ACME has no clue as to what to do. His catalog says the parts he sold Tommy are supposed to fit Tommy's engine, so everything should be OK.

Tommy realizes this answer isn't going to work, so he rings up the local speed shop and asks them how to determine the correct pushrod length. He realizes determining pushrod length is somewhat akin to learning brain surgery over the phone, so he asks the speed shop if he can just buy 4 sets of different length pushrods. It is 10 minutes to quitting time on Saturday and Tommy is wanting to cruise the local drive-in that night. He explains he wants to get his engine running and he will bring back the pushrod sets he did not need on Monday.

After he gets home from the speed shop, Tommy checks his ACME catalog and sees he can buy pushrods sets from them and save 83¢, so he figures out what length pushrod he needs, calls ACME and returns all 4 sets of pushrods to the local speed shop on Monday morning.

Once the pushrods arrive, Tommy installs them, grabs his rocker arms and realizes he has no idea of how to adjust lifter preload. He calls ACME, but their salesmen are all busy, so guess who he calls? Uh-huh, it's back to the local speed shop, to pick their brains.

Once Tommy gets everything bolted back together, he jumps in to light off his engine and the darn thing keeps backfiring through the carb. He calls ACME and the salesman there explains his catalog shows all of Tommy's parts are made to work in that engine, so Tommy calls the local speed shop. After playing 64 questions, the counterman explains that by lining up the marks on the timing gears, that actually has the #6 cylinder ready to fire, rather than the #1 cylinder. Tommy finally gets the ignition timing squared away and starts the engine.

After a quick cruise around the block, Tommy realizes the motor is a pig and won't take throttle, so he calls ACME. The salesman explains Tommy must have done something wrong, so Tommy rings up, you guessed it, the local speed shop, to ask how to get his carb dialed in to work with the other parts.

See how it works? Tommy wants to use his local speed shop for all of their 'free' technical advice, but he refuses to give that same speed shop a red cent. Their prices are just too high. But their advice is great, amazing and wonderful.

People, when you need aftermarket parts, support your local speed shop. Buy from them, to ensure they will be around for your next project. Yes, buying locally might cost you a little extra, but you will at least have the satisfaction of knowing you are supporting your local economy and helping to keep your community neighbors gainfully employed. Give the local shop all of your parts business and you will likely develop a relationship with that shop that will result in better pricing. But don't insult that shop by spending $2.59 a year and expecting to buy at 30% back.

For those of you who no longer have a local speed shop to support, ask yourselves if maybe, just maybe you are part of the reason why.

And don't kid yourselves into believing that all parts are the same, no matter who you purchase them from.

A few years back, a very popular and well-known company (who shall remain nameless) was booming in the market with their crankshafts and connecting rods. We were not direct with them, simply because we had never used their product, but suddenly, people were rolling in the door, carrying this particular brand of parts. In every instance, we were having to grind their cranks, because their journals were not round. In every instance, we were having to resize their rods, because both big and small-end bores were egg-shaped.

Sure, that junk looked wonderful in their ads and their prices were incredible. But after adding the expense of grinding a crank, just to get it right, the prices were suddenly not so good. And how many of you take the time to mike a brand-new crankshaft, or to check bore sizing on a brand-new set of rods?

A lot of parts from this same manufacturer were showing up on eBay, at prices too good to be true. We had a lot of customers buy these cranks, which would show up in unmarked boxes. You could pull the crank out of the box and everything would look OK, until we would discover one main journal would be .030" under, whilst the rest were all standard. Someone was buying the screw-ups from said manufacturer, and selling them as new. Of course, that is how the seller was advertising them, so there was no case to be made for false advertising.

Remember, there are two ways to buy oats, and each of those ways has its own pricing. You can buy oats, fresh out of the field, or you can buy oats, fresh out of a horse. Are you sure you're getting the oats you wanted?

Who are you supporting with your discretionary dollars?
 
You are spot on Mike,,,,,I always go to my local parts store for two reasons he needs to stay in business and I like to visit with him sometimes without buying any parts, he has been in the parts business for around 45 years and is 82 years old. Really nice fellow and he still know where to get the odd parts I sometimes need for a Hot Rod without a 1000 questions......

Sometimes I can buy the parts cheaper somewhere else but I really hate to see him go out of business, like he is threatening to do, because he is old and no one wants to deal with parts house that don't have a 'putor to look it up in.......I have accounts with all 4 of the parts houses in town but I go to him first.....We call the NAPA store here in town the 'tomorrow' store and the Autozone will get it next week and the O'Rileys will look for it in their 'putor and get back to me soon......Kids on the counters......LOL.....Plus they want to know the car name, the engine, the color & the something else, just makes me mad to go in there most of the time.......

I will get down from my soap box now and go work on a '26 Coupe........

Mike
 
Not to disagree, but the further the conversation, there always isn;t that choice. Even here in Indy, its slim pickings for anything other than standard auto parts. On top of that, I really dont need the advice of the speed shop counter person. The ones that were around when I was younger, most didn't really treat me all that well and they had a bot of an attitude. I had better luck when I lived in Ottumwa Ia and we had Tommy Johnson's Mail Order Speed Shop. I was a real young and dumb kid, but Tommy and his guys were really cool to me. They knew I didn't have much money and gave me real advice on stuff. Tommy Sr. finally gave it up and moved to NC after Tommy Jr. moved on to Indy for NHRA.

I learned best from the guys building the race cars and street rods in the area. They knew what worked because they did it. They liked being able to pass some knowledge on to the next generation. They also were not biased like the days of Super Shops where all they pushed was Mallory and Erson crap. Now, I just figure it out on my own. You'd be surprised what you can learn by reading and then doing. There will always be trial and error, but that's half the fun of it for me. The true local speed shop just isn't here anymore. The one that starts with 'A' doesn't really cater to street cars much, and they never seemed to care to help me. If you check their web site, its expired so who knows if they are even still in business -

Mike, I really wish there was a speed shop around with a guy like you in the counter. I also wish for the racing era of Jungle Jim and Big Daddy, nickel cokes and 99 cent gas, but face it, none of that is gonna happen these days.
 
There is a regional chain auto parts store locally where I get my regular parts. The place is locally owned and I go to them first (even have an account) before I try the national chain stores. They have good counter people and the place feels like the old mom and pop places.

The only local place that sells speed equipment is the machine shop that does my work. I buy what I can from him, but he sells a lot of "Pro Comp" stuff that I don't like. I do buy most of my engine internals there, though since, those parts are usually good quality stuff. He's been pushing me on some off shore aluminum heads that his head guy assembles. Price is good, but the parts are the same ones that come in the "factory assembled" heads, so I'm concerned about long term durability. I doubt I'll get my heads from him.

In his defense, most of his speed part customers buy strictly on price and he has to keep cheap stuff or they'll mail order. I would rather spend a little more and get what I feel are better parts.
 
Man I would find a different engine builder if my guy pushed pro crap parts. If I have to call someone for tech support I buy the related parts from them plain and simple. Most people need to figure out the hard way that spending more upfront can save money in the long run.
 
Grew up In a familly owned auto parts/ machine shop in Warner Robins Georgia (B&P auto and machine shop opened 1952....r.i.p. 1993), Right next door to the world champion 1974 funny car driver Cheril Greer. (Knowing him was just dang awesome). A few years before we closed, we were one of 3 auto parts stores, and one of 2 machine shopsin town. Business was good. Then one day autozone came to town, then advance, then western auto, than another autozone, another advance, then discout auto etc. our business became predominately garages that relied on our quality parts and delivery service and being able to charge on monthly accounts. More and more the shops bitched about the prices (that remained constant for years), and started sending there help to the discount stores with cash to buy parts. Not long after we closed we would run into some old customers complaining of redo after redo of jobs because of cheap parts and wanted to know why we closed!!!! Duhhhhh! I know a lot of the chain stores have much better quality parts than in the beginning, but sorry......I didn't beat em but I ain't joining them. I buy from Bubba down at the local NAPA, and will till they close the door. And I'm sure I spend a little more but don't know for certain. Because I never bother to check with auto-teenager auto parts store with the ringy ding ding honda parked out front......ever....
 
I support my local NAPA store for most of my non custom parts. They have been great in researching the unknown samples that I have brought in. When they identify the parts that I need, I put the information on a build sheet (spreed sheet) on my computer. As far as the custom stuff, I end up ordering it online. The speed shops say we can get it, but it will take a week to ten days. I can get it in 2 days to my door, and save time, and about 50 miles. I think we only have one speed shop, and only one custom shop in the area.
I went through the same problems when I had my cycle shop. The story always was, "I can get the stuff for less money online". I did offer discounts, and I did have my faithful customers, but the internet was part of my demise. My service on the m/cs kept me going for the last 10 years that I stayed open.
Lee
 
I support my local NAPA store for most of my non custom parts. They have been great in researching the unknown samples that I have brought in. When they identify the parts that I need, I put the information on a build sheet (spreed sheet) on my computer. As far as the custom stuff, I end up ordering it online. The speed shops say we can get it, but it will take a week to ten days. I can get it in 2 days to my door, and save time, and about 50 miles. I think we only have one speed shop, and only one custom shop in the area.
I went through the same problems when I had my cycle shop. The story always was, "I can get the stuff for less money online". I did offer discounts, and I did have my faithful customers, but the internet was part of my demise. My service on the m/cs kept me going for the last 10 years that I stayed open.
Lee
Just no custom/speed shops left in my area either. We have an outstanding machine shop local, and can do anything you want done, but as far as what combo/cam/gear etc they just haven't kept up. I usually wind up with a manufacturer tech line to ask the hard questions then see of my machine shop has access for the parts I need, but usually the machine shop says they just can't make any money off of it without it being to expensive. They understand they can't buy one cam and sell to me, like summit can order 10,000 cams and sell to me. I wish the manufacturers would sell to the little shops for the same as they do the big ones to keep these gearheads in par, but that's business I guess.
 
Fellas its all part of a changing world. Some call it progress some call it B.S. This same thing is happening to our local Grocery stores, hardware stores, appliance stores, ect. This country and the reason its so great is because things can change ,and they frequently do. Countries that do not share our freedoms are still doing business the same way for the last 50 years. I, for one, do not want to go back to 1960.
My local speed shop is gone because the owners son went to college and never returned, I think he is really wealthy now. Look at the way things have changed for us in the past 10 years, now guess where 10 more years will bring us. I can't imagine what it will be like, I'm just hangin' on for the ride!!!!
 
Where I live in Ohio, Summit Racing's retail store is just a few miles away, a good rod-and-custom shop is within driving distance, and there are a couple good local mom-and-pop auto parts stores nearby that have knowledgeable counter people and parts for older cars. Sure, the local shops may charge more for what they sell, but they also have years of experience and know what they are talking about. One independent local tire shop's owner sums up his sales philosophy like this-"If I wouldn't trust these tires on my own car, I wouldn't sell 'em!" The chain stores are great for buying motor oil and parts for newer cars that show up on their computer, but I still stick with the small shops for service I can rely on.
 
Where I live in Ohio, Summit Racing's retail store is just a few miles away, a good rod-and-custom shop is within driving distance, and there are a couple good local mom-and-pop auto parts stores nearby that have knowledgeable counter people and parts for older cars. Sure, the local shops may charge more for what they sell, but they also have years of experience and know what they are talking about. One independent local tire shop's owner sums up his sales philosophy like this-"If I wouldn't trust these tires on my own car, I wouldn't sell 'em!" The chain stores are great for buying motor oil and parts for newer cars that show up on their computer, but I still stick with the small shops for service I can rely on.

Ohio is a hotbed for performance companies. I never realized that till one day I was digging around the SEMA site.
 
Joe cool has a good point- things change- some better, some worse, but different. Trust me, there is way more performance automotive industry in the Indy/Indiana area then there was 20 yrs ago. So as far as technology and quality parts, they are all here- but basically from the mfgr. The small dealers are mostly gone because they didn't change with the times. Face it, money is tight and people want to research and find the best value for their money. The mom and pops just didn't get it.

Our business is small and centered on the performance motorsports industry- we had a web site before we opened the door. It may not have been the best site, but it put out the info necessary to inform the customers and drive sales. We also hit several regional shows and swaps which cost us quite a bit considering we are not selling anything- just getting our name out. We spent 8 hrs yesterday at the Super Sunday swap meet promoting our business and talking to potential customers and giving out free recommendations. Long day, but will pay off- every one we do costs us a few hundred for the spots, another $50-75 for the all color glossy flyers, gas, food, and 2-3 peoples time on a Sunday. All before we see a dime come back in the door. But it pays off- trust me. World of Wheels costs 3-4 times that for the weekend! Dad visits almost every NHRA shop in the area twice a week or more picking up, delivering, and selling service. You just can't sit at a counter or office and wait for business to come in. Look at MAS Racing. They had a great mail order and walk in business for 30+ years. They NEVER updated their catalog or ad. When they finally created a web site, it was basically unusable. I visited their location just before they folded as it was clear the end was near. They knew their failure to keep up caused their demise- they admitted it to me.

In this day, most speed shops can't afford to stock enough product to keep their doors open. If they don't have the services or product I need, how can I realistically support them? At the swap meet yesterday, alot of the vendors were reselling stock bought from Speedway and Summit- but without the after sales support.

I'm not sure I have a point, but It's a different world today and those that don't change with it will be left behind. Speed Shops and Parts houses are not exempt of this.
 
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Joe cool has a good point- things change- some better, some worse, but different. Trust me, there is way more performance automotive industry in the Indy/Indiana area then there was 20 yrs ago. So as far as technology and quality parts, they are all here- but basically from the mfgr. The small dealers are mostly gone because they didn't change with the times. Face it, money is tight and people want to research and find the best value for their money. The mom and pops just didn't get it.

Our business is small and centered on the performance motorsports industry- we had a web site before we opened the door. It may not have been the best site, but it put out the info necessary to inform the customers and drive sales. We also hit several regional shows and swaps which cost us quite a bit considering we are not selling anything- just getting our name out. We spent 8 hrs yesterday at the Super Sunday swap meet promoting our business and talking to potential customers and giving out free recommendations. Long day, but will pay off- every one we do costs us a few hundred for the spots, another $50-75 for the all color glossy flyers, gas, food, and 2-3 peoples time on a Sunday. All before we see a dime come back in the door. But it pays off- trust me. World of Wheels costs 3-4 times that for the weekend! Dad visits almost every NHRA shop in the area twice a week or more picking up, delivering, and selling service. You just can't sit at a counter or office and wait for business to come in. Look at MAS Racing. They had a great mail order and walk in business for 30+ years. They NEVER updated their catalog or ad. When they finally created a web site, it was basically unusable. I visited their location just before they folded as it was clear the end was near. They knew their failure to keep up caused their demise- they admitted it to me.

In this day, most speed shops can't afford to stock enough product to keep their doors open. If they don't have the services or product I need, how can I realistically support them? At the swap meet yesterday, alot of the vendors were reselling stock bought from Speedway and Summit- but without the after sales support.

I'm not sure I have a point, but It's a different world today and those that don't change with it will be left behind. Speed Shops and Parts houses are not exempt of this.

Totally agree, businesses always have to keep up with the times. In the 80's when most cars were going computer, a lot of small shops just didn't want to learn/deal with/buy the equipment it took to diagnose and repair problems. They decided to stick with the old stuff which was fine at the time. Problem is they woke up a few years later with no business, because the cars they knew how to work on were mostly all gone, and they were way way behind in the times, and a lot of them just shut the door.
 
What a lot of people are not aware of is what some of the bigger mail-order houses are doing to the manufacturing side of the industry. Some of the manufacturers got comfortable putting all their eggs into the Ohio mail-order houses' basket and have paid dearly for it. I won't name names, to protect the innocent, but look what happened to Edelbrock (OK, so I did name a name), about 4 years ago. That was a company that had been around for decades and suddenly, they were letting Ohio companies dictate pricing to them. Industrial Opportunity Partners kept the Edelbrock name on the door, but that was a company that went bankrupt, trying to keep the mail-order houses on board.

What Vic Jr. didn't realize is his product had a wonderful reputation and was going to sell itself, irregardless. Instead, he kept letting the mail-order whores houses dictate pricing policy to him, to a point where he had laid off two shifts, before finally realizing the ship was sinking.

Anyone recall that Autotronic Controls (MSD) filed for bankruptcy? We were a warehouse distributor for those guys, but the Ohio mail-order houses advertised lower prices than I was getting from MSD! Now tell me how that is going to work for anyone and I will show you a lot of smoke and mirrors.

I won't lie, when I was still in the business, the two Ohio joints purchased boatloads of valve springs from us. But we held the line on our pricing, because we knew our end customers were going to purchase our product from someone, even if the Ohio joints dropped our line. It kept the smaller warehouses competitive with the monster houses, so we were doing our part to try to keep everyone's fingers in the pie. If every manufacturer would try to ensure everyone in the food chain could get a little profit, then things would work again, but they are all interested in trying to set records on orders received from Ohio, so they knife their own backs to do it. Sure, we could have dropped prices to the Ohio joints, but let's be honest and call if for what it is - those places are not looking to improve profit margins, they are simply trying to sell at the lowest price. The only two customers we had that were upset with our strict pricing policies were the two Ohio mail-order houses. Everyone else saw we were doing what we could to keep them in the game.

And people, chopping prices is not how you keep a business alive, no matter how big it is. I knew most of the line reps in the Midwest, because I dealt with them for a quarter-century. And they were all scared to death that tomorrow would be the day the Ohio mail-order joints realized they really aren't making any profit, they are just handling a lot of money. Mind, I worked in that industry for 37 years and I know the kinds of profit margins a business needs to remain viable and healthy, and those places are lucky to develop 1/10th of that amount. The pity of it all is they are building empires out of glass houses. How many of you can afford to work for 10% of your current wage? See how scary it all gets?

One of those Ohio mail-order houses uses that business to generate capital for its real estate acquisitions, which is where they are making their money. Any wonder that most of their phone salesman cannot give you any real technical help?

There is the real reason your Mom-n-Pop speed shops are so few and far between. But that won't stop most people from continuing to pick up the phone to order from them, which is doing naught but continuing to worsen the market for everyone.
 
Some of the smarter smaller businesses are getting together to form buying groups to help lower their pricing in an effort to compete with the large mail order companies. This seems to work so far but I still think if they are not technically advance with online shopping they are still going to be in trouble one day. Us old guys like to go down and BS while dreaming about all the parts I want to buy but this next generation want's to do everything online.
 
It is just a decision of how people want to see things move forward.

Purchasing combines can work, if they are done correctly. An excellent case in point is NAPA. A lot of parts houses would have gone under, had it not been for the purchasing power of a combine.

When it comes to the end user, one customer might feel having a local shop to deal with is important enough to make the drive to the shop and risk the shop needing to order a given component.

Another customer might feel it is easier and cheaper to just log onto a Web site and order the part themselves.

The question comes back to a case of who is capable of providing you with the best technical support - the guy who has busted his own knuckles using the parts you are interested in, or a company who got their start selling books online. I was selling high performance parts 20 years before Amazon started selling books, for Pete's sake. Can Amazon's Web site tell you how to check if pushrod length is correct, how to dial in a carb using a vacuum gauge, how to set valve lash to help bottom end power, how to set up your friction shocks, etc?

I always chuckle at how people base purchasing decisions on the warranty a particular part may have. Warranty? I don't want a part with a good warranty, I want a quality part that doesn't need a warranty. Who cares if a part has a warranty, because that warranty doesn't cover downtime, nor does it cover replacement time. If you want to work for free, replacing someone's low-quality parts, that is fine with me. But I prefer to purchase a better quality part with a better service history, so I can spend my time doing what I want to do, rather than working to replace the low-quality part.

Please remember, all this works the same with our own forum sponsors. Who is really helping to support your hobby? Fellows like Jim Wilkos, Ron Pope, B.C. and Jerry Kiefer, or the people at the mail-order warehouses? Who are the people going to the shop early and working late on a Friday night, the four, above-mentioned craftsmen, or the people at the mail-order houses? Who are the people living, eating and breathing T-Buckets, the phone salesman who drove his Kia to work, or the guys who are in their shops cranking out new T-Bucket components?

Go read through our sponsors' forum sections and look at what these people are saying and doing. They are taking profits and re-investing in bigger facilities, in updated equipment, in newer technology and in raw materials, so they can do a better job of providing you with what you need to build your T-Bucket. So give them a call and show your appreciation, by spending some of your hard-earned dollars with them.
 
Mike, that is why I bought my frame and body from Ron, and everything else on my bucket that I dont make myself will come from one of these sight sponsors if available. I would rather spend my money somewhere where the guy that owns the company answers the phone and walks with you through your order or happily gives you technical advice even before you ever bought anything from him. Some things like wheels and such will have to come from elsewhere but I will spend my hard earned money supporting the good people who sponsor this site.
 

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